Cushion hardness vs truck tightness
You can modify action by either tightening/ loosen trucks or by swapping cushions. What do you do for action control? Why do you prefer it over the other method? What are the drawbacks that you have experienced? Building the knowledge base.
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In general, I would go for cushions that match your weight and then tighten/loosen from there. E.g. (example given) I am 155lbs (usually medium hardness range) so I wouldn't use the softest or hardest cushion as a general rule.
However, when it comes to specialized activities, I have several other cushion hardness combinations that I would run. E.g. (1) I run all hard cushions in my skates set up [and designed] for the sole purpose of long figures. (2) In my loop skates I use one hard on top and one very soft on the bottom, or two medium cushions. (3) On the skates I use for “compulsory” dance I use one softer on the bottom and medium on top.
For freestyle I use a similar setup but both mediums are my preference since I am using an EVO for freestyle and the geometry is different than my other plates. If I was using an Energy plate for freestyle, I'd go one soft/medium on the lowers and one medium/hard on top.
With an overall loose but not too loose action, with the pivot pin properly adjusted. The key for me is that I don't want to overly crank down the action, but also don't want to just leave it flopping around without tightening at all. If the action is set up so that the pivot pin is adjusted properly, I would consider that to be good.
As for drawbacks I think you just have to accept that certain actions are optimal for certain things and that one setup is not going to let you be optimal for everything.
-- Quickstep --
This reminds me of my dad’s skates they were a medium height boot and he had his trucks set so loose that you could shake them. He liked them that way so he could just lean a bit for turning. I did use them a few times it was very different and scary not being use to it
Ug, there is not correct answer. I will say for anyone asking the question the wrong answer mentions the weight of the skater. The reason I say this is because if you are curious and trying to figure out how to adjust them you want to become a good skater. Basing the cushions off of a skaters weight is great for a new skater starting out that does not even know what he cushion is called.
The cushion adjustment is different for the type of skating you like and mostly the feel you want from the skates, what works better for you. So you will need to experiment.
When I raced I liked my front cushions super tight to get a good push off and boost from the front truck rebound, the back were still tight but losser for steering. I also like my stopper close to the floor for quick running starts.
For JB Glide skating I have the softest red powerdyne cushions. I am 6'2" and 210 lbs. I do nor use any stoppers in my skates for this type of skating. I run the soft reds tighter than the medium oranges I just took off. I had loosened the oranges enough were I was getting speed wobble white trucking.
For reference I am a long time skater with middle of the road skills.
Just to prove it's all subjective I prefer loose"er" front trucks to get an edge for push off and back trucks tight for a stable step push
it's makes the point all trucks and cushions don't have to be the same tightness
it should add the ability to fine tune each truck action it's all about "feel"
I2endurancerace, what kind of skating do you do? Is that a typical feel that people who skate your style/category go for or is your set-up atypical for your skate style/category?
BboyHeathen, I think you are correct with your statement, "cushions that match your weight and then tighten/loosen from there" as this is what my very experienced rink owner (and skate builder) told me and it has proven useful for me. However the subtleties may change as you become very aware of the differences each makes. I am 145 lbs on 6" Falcon Pilots with softest cushions. I may tighten-up the trucks a couple of clicks for recreational speed skate sessions at the local rink, but usually leave the pin nuts at one fairly soft setting for general easy manoeuvrability.
I would add lacing-up into the equation. On my Bont Park boots, I was not lacing them up to the top (or using the velcro strap), as I wanted the feel of my old speed skates with lots of ankle flex. When I tried them again fully laced-up, the amount of turn and edge I got from ankle flex was amazing. It meant I was no longer relying mainly on weight transfer simply through the balls of my feet and heels, but the entire foot to the ankle. Problem with full lace-up was I couldn't squat as easily all the way down onto my haunches (crouch down). So I now I don't use the strap and don't lace up the top eyelets - a good middle ground for extra turn.
Bboy I skated speed I only mentioned the action I skate with so you could see a contrast that it's up to your individual "feel"
another bit of insight strive for good products it may be more expensive but it will allow you to get a better "feel"
btw I swapped out to softer cushions just from this discussion
My old rhythm skates came with some standard cushions and a 15 degree angle (hard cushions). Before I started changing cushions I used to loosen my trucks. I liked them loose.
Then when I upgraded, I went with SOFT cushions and I feel like I never really have to loosen the trucks so much anymore. Heel skating, heel spinning, toe spinning, JB skating, rhythm skating, cone skating, shuffle skating, jam skating, matrix type stuff. Everything seems possible. I even enjoy playing around with the figure skaters.
But you get to that point where everyone's body's, balance, feet, and styles are SOOOOOOOO different, that you'll get about a million different answers.
To put it shortly, for me it seems softer cushions were a way that I didn't have to have super loose trucks. Feels like butter, like a natural extension of my body.
Also, Bboy, check your messages on this forum, I just sent you a link to a party in Connecticut. As it's not my party, I don't want to post it publicly.
We to the board and having difficulty navigating it. How do I see the responses in this thread.
I skated a stock cushions on Riedell 111 package. During the 2 years I skated them, I had the cushions tightened down pretty tight. That lead me to hit edges deeply to achieve turns etc. I didn't feel like my mobility was limited during that time. towards the end of the 2 years, I loosened the nut. Maybe the cushions were shot but I didn't like the loose feeling. The skate felt like it was falling all over the place.
Riedell 111 boot, Powerdyne Thrust plate
Choosing to get the hard or soft depends on your weight, riding style, and the type of skate you ride. The soft work best for lighter riders who need added flexibility and freedom of movement when turning and carving in. If you’re into pulling off stunts, consider having the hard installed increases the tightness of trucks and results in a rigid and more stable ride.
So instead of providing those million answers I am going to talk a bit about the mechanics here.
First, if you are a rec sk8r and riding on the original rubber cushions, ditch 'em and get urethane. (Yeah I know figure sk8rs like rubber so if it makes you happy....) Now since we are on urethane, lets talk about adjustment. Tightening the action limits the urethane cushion's ability to change shape which is how it works. It does not compress. It also limits its ability to absorb shock forces which can lead to broken metal parts, like trucks and king pins. In fact, one can tighten urethane to the point it behaves as a solid. Over tightening the action also limits rebound which is what urethane is really good for.
Second, how does one tell if the cushions are too tight?? Simple. Look @ the action. If the cushion sides are not straight, they are already over tightened. Remember that changing shape?? It's right there staring you in the face. If you need to tighten the action that much, get stiffer cushions and loosen the action back up.
Third, lets talk a bit about who is in charge here. The sk8r or the sk8s?? The stiffer the action, the more the sk8s are in control and the harder the sk8r must work to make them do what you want. The softer the action, the more the sk8 does what the sk8r tells it to. There in lies the rub. If the sk8r feels like the sk8s are going all over everywhere with a soft action, it's not the sk8s fault. The problem lies in the sk8rs inability to control the sk8. They are doing exactly what the sk8r tells them to do but the sk8r is telling them the wrong thing by over reacting. The dreaded speed wobble is a prime example. As the sk8rs speed increases the need for the sk8rs reaction speed also needs to pick up. The wobble comes from the sk8r being "behind" where the sk8 is.
Folks the cushion is only part of the equation. the sk8r is a big contributor as well. Maybe even the major contributor. One must have some muscle conditioning to control the sk8. Here the sk8r must seek to balance their ability with the action.
A comment on manufacturer's recommended weights for suspension set ups. OK for beginners, to a point. When the highest weight recommended for a cushion set up is 150 pounds, what do ya do @ 200 pounds?? Don't let the recommendations get in your head. I have never rolled any thing on my Roll Lines but green cushions. Max weight recommended for those urethane cushions?? 77 pounds. Add 100 to that number and that is ~ the least I have weighed in my adult sk8ing life. Roll Line recommends the yellows for any one over 154 pounds. I tried a set one time @ about 220 pounds. Could not even turn the sk8s. But that is me, YMMV!!
Cushions are cheap for most sk8s...unless you roll Roll Lines. Don't be afraid to spend a little money and experiment. Remember to recheck your pivot adjustments if your sk8s have them.
Have fun!!
@ Bboy Heathen:
"During the 2 years I skated them, I had the cushions tightened down pretty tight. That lead me to hit edges deeply to achieve turns etc."
I don't think you hit your edges deeply, you had to hit them hard. Not good because that would twist the crap out of that Thrust plate. All your effort was being wasted.
"I didn't feel like my mobility was limited during that time."
Take my word for it. I have way to much experience helping beginning derby sk8rs solve mobility issues with stock Thrust plates. From my experience any factory built sk8 has improper alignment on top of the issue flexing plate issue. Put some purple Sure Grip Super cushion on your sk8s and find out what you were missing.
"towards the end of the 2 years, I loosened the nut. Maybe the cushions were shot but I didn't like the loose feeling. The skate felt like it was falling all over the place."
Actually the sk8 was doing what you told it to do. You were so used to gorilla stomping the action to make it work, once you freed the action up it started working and you were over controlling. So of course you did not like it.
So, where are you now with your action??
I recommend choosing higher trucks because they will offer you a wider range of truck and wheel choices. Lighter trucks allow all skaters to enjoy more. Still, it’s a personal choice
There are only so many(very few) truck choices. SG at one time had I think 3 styles for 1 30 degree plate type. Aftermarket may have more but it is limited. If you need space a spacer between the boot and plate may be needed. I know some taller stuff is being made in Aussie land. Lighter usually means breakage.