Vintage Super Deluxe Rehab
Hello!
I picked up a pair of (I think early 80s) vintage Riedell 220s with Snyder Super Deluxe plates a couple weeks ago. Honestly the skates are in pretty spectacular condition, but are a bit dirty and obviously haven't been used in a long time. I thought I would go ahead and take the plates apart and clean everything up, then lube and reassemble because hopefully these will become my regular skates. I might not end up keeping them, but it seems like cleaning up the plates would also be a benefit if i end up removing and reselling them. I've taken one apart and thought it would be smart to get some input on the reassemble... Mainly...
- What parts need to be lubricated before reassembly? My cursory search of Snyder info (online and in the booklet that was with the skates!) leads me to believe I should put a little grease/heavy oil on all the threaded things.
- What kind of grease is best? I have some regular automotive moly grease... I also have some 0w20 synthetic oil... I also have vaseline, which (surprisingly, to me) is the only thing I found specifically mentioned in the Snyder online materials. I am especially concerned with what to use on the pivot head.
- Should I apply oil/grease to anything else just to avoid corrosion? I have no intention of using these skates in the elements.
- I found posts here (and on the previous iteration of this forum) about swapping Sure Grip cushions into these skates in place of the rubber ones. The skates came with 'hard' (yellow) cushions, which don't look terrible, but also are probably 30+ years old. I have been skating on medium cushions in my current skates. On a lark and emboldened by the free returns, I ordered both the SG cushions and cushion retainers for them that fit Sure Grip skates. Just by kingpin diameter, these retainers will fit the Snyders, HOWEVER the lower cushion retainer, in particular, is obviously a much lighter gauge metal. Can I use the SG retainers or should I stick with stock ones or order something specifically different (I don't have the means to fabricate anything). The SG cushion seems like it will fit the stock upper retainer/trucks just fine, but I would have to invert the lower conical cushion to use the stock retainer with it... Or exchange the conicals for another set of barrels. Any helpful input here?
- FINALLY.... are there any gotchas about reassembly. I've seen several cautions about reinstalling the kingpin slowly and cautiously to avoid cross threading, but anything else, for example, regarding the way the pivot head should fit in the cup?
I am not where I can right now, but i'll try to post some pics of the plates/parts in a little bit.
Thanks so much for whatever input! I've taken apart and put together many things before, but never skates like this... and I haven't found a shop in my area yet that works on them either, so any input would be very, very appreciated!
Comments
There is no kind of soap specifically designed for cleaning wheels. Most use a home dishwashing soap dissolved proportionately in water. The stains that come in contact with your wheels are mostly road dirt or grease in some instances. Thus, there is no need to use harsh substances like acid-based solutions because they might only damage your wheels.
For the bearings, most use isopropyl alcohol or acetone solutions. And sometime we can use alcohol.
Here’s a pic of all the cleaned up parts...
https://imgur.com/aCj2S0H
Here's the bottom of the plate that goes with the cleaned up parts...
https://imgur.com/TdL2lnb
And here's the cushion/truck sammich with the sure grip cushions, and using the stock upper cushion cup and the sure grip conical lower cushion cup... can't be worse than just a washer, can it?
https://imgur.com/aCj2S0H
Hopefully those links work. Getting pictures in here has been a little... challenging :-D
One more note... I think i'm using the wrong words for bottom and top cushion. I'm referring to them based on if the skate with wheels on the floor, which i think is wrong.
Also, last image link was wrong... https://imgur.com/b0FX9ob I'm not good at this 😫
I have a TON of old Snyder Deluxe setups, and one thing I love about them is how low maintenance they are, and how all the parts can still be bought to rehab them, even for plates that are decades old.
The only thing I use to grease the pivot cup and pin intermittently is petroleum, which is fine for maintenance. I know other Snyder manuals have suggested heavy grade oil, so you could probably use automotive oil or similar, as well. Only thing to really watch out for that I've struggled with is the toe stop threading, because it's longer and you have more chances to cross thread and mess the housing up. I've managed to cross thread a toe stop before in a plate and it was REALLY bad, and it's only happened on a vintage Deluxe plate that was 60+ years old. Otherwise, the kingpins aren't something I've had issues with, but I would definitely use some grease on all the moving parts if you've stripped them of their previous grease, because those metal parts lock SUPER easily.
As for the cushions.. I've never swapped the conical cushions on, largely because I think you could have to have a DIY retainer setup to do it to fit the conical lowers on properly with Sure Grips retainers. You can just use the regular retainers and have a double barrel urethane setup, but I actually prefer the rubber for the Snyders that they still sell. Not everyone does, but I usually go with soft rubber cushions and tighter trucks. I like the harder edges that the rubber gives, where they hold an edge and don't let go until you tell them to. The urethane has a tendency to bounce back more and rebound faster, which some people like. I don't, so all my Snyders have the rubber, double barrel setup.
The main thing I had to adjust to with figuring out how to adjust the trucks on Snyders is first adjusting the kingpin, then the hex nut next to the plate. When you place the kingpins in, you'll have to find a sweet spot, and then tighten the hex nut under the jump bar to lock the kingpin into place. So if you want looser trucks, you'll have to probably go through a few times where you tighten the kingpin, then the hex nut, wiggle and/or skate on your trucks, and then loosen and tighten them again. You can also buy a click action conversion if you want, but I actually don't mind the adjustment process, because I feel like it really locks in your preference. I also have found that the best way to get the jump bar and hangars back in place is to tighten on kingpin enough to catch the threads in the place, but not completely tight, and then do the other hangar. If you tighten the first one completely, it usually causes the other to misalign and then you can't get the second kingpin in without hitting resistance.
Good luck, Snyder plates are my FAVORITE.
Great info, thanks! I got antsy and went ahead and put them back together while waiting for feedback and took them for a spin. What could possibly go wrong?? 😂 I've been skating on some $80 candi girl carlins with upgraded bearings/wheels and the Snyders gave quite a different experience. They are way more responsive and also felt quite a bit more stable.
The cushions felt nice; i just tried to get the action set uniformly across all the trucks and lucked out that it felt like a good, smooth amount of movement (to me, getting the action even was the biggest challenge of this kingpin setup).
I do have some uneven 'wear' on the right inner wheels, as indicated by the dirt from the filthy rink floor... looks like i lean on the outside of my right foot more heavily. 😳 I'm pretty sure it's not the skates (my other skates have dark wheels, so i can't really tell on them). In previous sessions, the outside of the ball of that foot is the most likely place i would get soreness.
I may take everything apart one more time and just re-lubricate the bolts, based on your input... I'll also try to pick up a set of medium rubber cushions just to try/feel the difference there. Maybe I'll end up liking them too!
I'm mostly just tickled to have found these skates. I need the boots to break in a little, but I feel optimistic that they will with some time moving around in them. They're just about perfect with very thin socks; no blisters after my inaugural 2-hour test ride, just a little soreness around the pinky toes where that break in is needed. I paid a fair price for them given the boot/plate combo and overall condition, but if the seller had known anything about the bearings/wheels and marketed them differently, I'm pretty sure they would have gone higher than I could have paid for them.
A couple more pics... https://i.imgur.com/m5rnKRm.jpg https://i.imgur.com/mXPhU0P.jpg
Greasing plays a significant role in the smoothness of your ride. After drying the bearings, apply lubricants of any recommended brand like WD-40. This substance will not only smoothen movements in your bearings but will also accelerate water evaporation. Lubing also helps in loosening the rusted parts of any metal surface.
Let's not used WD-40 in sk8 bearings. Granted, it can displace water but then you have the residue left. It is not a good high speed lube for bearings. Lately I have been playing with Lucas Reel oil but 3 in 1 does just fine if you want to oil the bearings.